进入“后新冠疫情时代”，全球化发展面临着变局，需要全球共同努力不断开拓合作，促进经济增长和社会发展的新局。

当我们不得不面对疫情时，“韧性”的概念非常恰当地概括了我们所必须具备的品质，如今我们要做的是以更系统性的方式探索“合作”的概念。当下，协同发展是大势所趋，能否切实开展深化、平等地合作，在当前来看应该是合作深入推进并实现互利共赢的关键。中欧论坛创始人、法国里昂商学院高级顾问高大伟先生在准备《中国与世界第二卷》期间，独家对话众多知名政客、学者、企业家，就疫情后的合作发展法则展开谈论。

近期我们将陆续推出为期十期的《合之道》系列访谈，继《竹之韧》后的在后疫情时代背景下的高端访谈。

路易·戈达尔
Louis Godart

三任意大利总统文化艺术遗产顾问
Cultural Advisor to Three Italian Presidents

意大利籍考古学家，是三任意大利总统的文化艺术遗产顾问。他是迈锡尼考古学和语文学专家，在地中海文明研究领域著有29本书和141篇学术论文。
Mr. Godart, an Italian archaeologist, has served as a cultural advisor to three Italian Presidents. He is an expert in Mycenaean archaeology and philology and the author of 29 books and 141 scientific articles on topics related to the civilizations of the Mediterranean.

高大伟：我们都对丝绸之路怀有同样的热情。我还记得这个展览是我们一起合作，一起实现的，就是在意大利总统府。你也是研究丝绸之路的专家，我想问，为什么说丝绸之路的理念象征着合作交流的精神？

David Gosset: We share the same passion for the Silk Road.  I remember an exhibition where we cooperated together in the Italian Presidential Palace. As you are an expert of the Silk Road,  I wanted to ask you why we could say that the notion of Silk Road symbolizes the spirit of cooperation and exchange?

路易·戈达尔： 很明显，我们正处于全球均势进程的开端，其中欧亚将发挥领军作用。中国预计在“一带一路”开展的十年内，沿线国家之间的贸易往来增长一倍以上，以实现年贸易额2.5万亿美元的目标。并且，非洲也会参与其中，显然非洲将得益于这样的交流，同时这也对世界和平，以及非洲自身的发展大有裨益。

Louis Godart:  It is clear that we are on the beginning of a progress of the global balance, in which Eurasia will play a leading role. China predicts that within 10 years of "The Belt and Road Initiative", commercial ties between the countries positioned along the New Silk Road should more than double in order to reach a target of $2.5 trillion. Since Africa will also be involved, it will obviously benefit fromthese exchanges. It is extremely important for the peace in the world and for the promotion of Africa itself.

高大伟：你提到了习近平总书记在2013年提出的“一带一路”倡议。我们认为这是一项非常重要的战略，它重新阐释了古丝绸之路。当然正如你所说，这也关乎欧亚合作：欧洲与亚洲，欧洲与中国。但同时，这也是一条连接非洲、亚洲和欧洲的轴线。这对我们所生存的世界至关重要，决不能忘却非洲大陆。非洲已被涵盖在“一带一路”的规划中。教授，如你所知，中国还有另一项非常重要的倡议，也可以说是思想或愿景，那就是人类命运共同体。我认为这一思想在国外没有受到足够的关注，但无疑这是非常重要的。你认为中国的复兴对人类命运共同体有什么作用？除了这个概念是由中国提出以外，有何切实意义？

David Gosset: You mentioned "The Belt and Road Initiative" of President Xi Jinping, that he put forward in 2013. We can think of it as a very important strategy as a reinterpretation of the ancient Silk Road. And of course, as you were saying, this is about Eurasian continuities: the relationship between Europe and China, Europe and Asia, but this is also an Afro-Eurasian axis. It is very important, in the world in which we live, not to forget the African continent. Africa is a part of "The Belt and Road" Project. Also, as you know very well, China has another very important initiative, or I would say idea or vision, the vision of a community of shared future for mankind. This is also something that I believe we do not discuss enough outside of China, but this is a very important vision. How do you see the Chinese renaissance contributing to this community of shared future for mankind, beyond the fact that China is putting forward the concept, but in a concrete way?

路易·戈达尔： 今天的中国已成为一个能够影响全球经济的大国。中国的历史纵横千年，从中国的国际声望、璀璨文化和发展活力来看，在世界上的许多国家中，我认为中国是一个在许多方面都值得被效仿的范例。在21世纪的开端，中欧关系因其丰厚的历史和未来的机遇而进一步加深，这也能够解锁双方的潜能，实现共同利益，携手改变世界。15年前我到访中国，为钱皮总统的国事访问做准备。期间我与许多中国同事交流，他们对我说，“不难发现中意两国之间共通的文化与利益。因为我们曾是两大帝国的缔造者。”高教授，西方国家可以从中国文化中学到很多，同时中国也可以从欧洲文化中学到很多 。

孔子和苏格拉底是人类文明的两座丰碑。我可以举几个例子，来解释中国是如何丰富欧洲文化的。比如说指南针、造纸术、数学、宇宙学、药理学。再比如说，2015年的诺贝尔医学奖颁给了中国科学家屠呦呦，以肯定她对疟疾防治所做的贡献。这意味着边界是完全可以被跨越的，穿过乌拉尔山脉的南部，中国、远东地区和遥远的西方，数千年前就寻得了合作的机会。很重要的一点是，欧洲通过与亚洲的合作蓬勃发展，对于亚洲来说，也是一样。

Louis Godart: The China of today is a power able of influencing the world economy. Its history spans thousands of years, and along with its international prestige, its great culture and its dynamism, China is a country, which out of many in the world, is an example to me, imitated in many ways. Now, at the beginning of the 21st century, China and Europe relations are strengthened by their history and future possibilities, which can unlock their dynamical potential and common interest in alliance to make a change to the world. When I was in China 15 years ago, preparing the state visit of President Ciampi, I had many discussions with Chinese colleagues who told me, "It is easy to find common culture and interest between China and Italy, because we are the producers of the two most important empires of the world".  Western countries have a lot to learn from the Chinese culture, and China has a lot to learn from the European culture.

Confucius and Socrates are two monuments of the humanity.  Let me take only a few examples to demonstrate how China was able to enrich Europe. Let me mention compass, paper, mathematics, cosmography, pharmacology. Let me mention, for instance, in 2015, the Nobel Prize for Medicine to the Chinese researcher, Youyou Tu, for her work on malaria. That means that across the extremely permeable boundary, south of the Ural Mountains, China, the Far East and the Far West, per millennium and millennium, had the possibility to collaborate. It is extremely important to say that Europe has been strengthened together with Asia, and the same for Asia.

高大伟：非常感谢你的回答。你提到了中国和中华文明，千年来一直丰富着人类文明。现在我想问一个很难的问题。从长远考虑的话，你是否相信进步？我强调从长期角度来看。如果相信，那么合作在人类文明的进步上扮演着什么样的角色？我知道这是一个相当复杂的问题。

David Gosset: Thank you very much. Because you talked about how China, the Chinese civilization, contributed for millennia to enrich mankind, now I would like to ask you an extremely difficult question. Do you believe in progress in the long-term? Again, with a focus on "long term" in mind. And if so, what is the role of collaboration for humanity to progress? I know it is a very complicated question.

路易·戈达尔： 高教授，我确实对进步有充分的信心。人类的所有故事都是进步的证明，从周口店洞穴内发现火开始，那已是150万到50万年前了。但作为历史学家，我总坚持一点，无论何时何地：进步的可能，是要归功于不同国家和民族之间的合作的。

要实现合作，要在世界上的每个个体间实现合作，就必须拥有和平的环境。我认为欧洲与中国的合作要秉承和平的精神，来向其他国家展示，和平是推动发展的唯一途径。

Louis Godart:   Professor Gosset, I do believe indeed in progress.  All story of the mankind is the proof of the progresses realized from the time of the discovery of fire in the cave of Zhoukoudian between 1.5 million and 500,000 years ago. But as an historian, I always like to insist on one point, always and everywhere: progresses were possible, thanks to the collaboration between different countries and nations.

And this collaboration is only possible between us, between all the women and all the men of the world, blows a wind of peace. I think that Europe and China have to collaborate in a spirit of peace to demonstrate to all the other nations that peace is the only instrument to promote progresses.

高大伟：施以正确理解，文化间不会碰撞冲突，而会相互促进。进步的前提是合作。这是在历史上得以应验的道理，如今依然适用。你也倡导合作，一同面对我们共同的挑战。在未来也是如此。

David Gosset: When they are properly understood, cultures do not clash; they cross-fertilize. What does progress presuppose is the idea of collaboration. It has been true in the past. It is very true today. And you have urged us to collaborate to face the many challenges that we are facing all together. And it will be true for the future.

路易·戈达尔：秉承和平的精神展开合作。

Louis Godart: Collaboration in a spirit of peace.